navarre.aiClarisTalk AI · the FileMaker AI podcast
Claris Engage – Part 2
The second part of a three part series from Claris Engage 2024 in Austin Texas
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Transcribed by machine (whisper, large model), 7,070 words. Names and product terms are sometimes misheard; the audio is the record.
I'm here at Engage with Dave Knight. Good morning. Your voice and mine are about the same. That's because we've been talking quite late last night. It's true, quite late last night. You know what I'd like to say? I want to thank you because you've been my mentor for a really, really long time. And all this time I've actually thought you were younger than me because you look so much younger than me. But you have really guided me a lot in my career, and I owe a lot to you. Thank you. You're welcome. Who are you again? I'm Matt Petrowski. That's nice of you. Yeah, I've watched you from afar. I think I got in the game a couple years before you. No. This is my 41st year as a developer.
Got it. But I think you were actually really big in FileMaker before me because I was kind of like doing it and working for companies. And you actually had really built a big company. So, yeah, definitely you had really done that. So I'd watch you and kind of follow in your footsteps. I bet. Thank you. The interesting thing for me from the sidelines was watching you over the years. You entered the FileMaker fray probably not with as much size or scale or visibility perhaps initially. But in a very short period of time, all of a sudden you're presenting at DevCon. You've got a platinum shop. You've got a team of people. Your website was always fantastic. You were a great messenger.
So it was always fun to watch. How impressively you jumped in and then started swimming pretty fast. Oh, thanks. That's really nice. Yeah, I had good marketing people for the website. I'm actually shocked you looked at my website. Thank you. You're welcome. The new one I've put some time into too. Navar Training. I'm not sure if you've looked at that. I don't know if I've seen the newest one. We've been head down. We just released our new website, which we've been working on pretty much for probably about a year and a half. And we're really pleased with it. We've done a lot of work. Just. Visually and with a design element and so forth, but also in telling really good stories.
Is it AngelCityData.com or? Yeah, that's correct. So, yeah, I've also like business wise. I'm not sure if we've talked about it, if I've even had you on the podcast, but I've really been impressed with your take on business. And I think that's one of the other things that sets you apart in the community is a lot of people like me are tech nerds who built a business, not really being business people. But you really are adept at the business side of it from like your work in studios. Yeah, I'm. I'm just a shade tree mechanic like everybody. We all start by just tinkering. Next thing you know, we're building FileMaker stuff and number one, sitting across from really astute businessmen over the years, learning how they work, harvesting those great ideas and applying them myself.
And now I'm I'm an executive board member on our local Chamber of Commerce in Burbank. I sit down with people that are executives at that 60 billion dollar companies like Disney. But I'm also sitting down with somebody who's just getting ready to open a coffee shop. I love talking about the entrepreneurial experience and the the little kernel that gets inside somebody that says, I want to run a business. And how do I how do I grow it? How do I raise the visibility? How do I hire good people? How do I pay attention to the health of my business? And what are some of the things you can do? And I get it's funny because I I get calls all the time from my colleagues, people like yourself.
How do you do it? Yeah. Or I'm thinking I'm thinking about adding my first employee, you know, or, you know, I talk with. Some smart people in the industry. I talk with Marshall Michaels over at Mainspring all the time. I talk with Mark Richman, who's a smart guy over at Skeleton Key. I talk with Adam Aronson. He's one of my brothers. It's Aaron Adamson. Pardon me? It's Aaron Adamson. Aaron. Aaron Adamson. Everybody gets his name wrong. My wife calls him that always. And she knows him and loves him. But yeah, I love. And again, when I go to these Engage conferences, I'm sitting there talking with with Ann Devins, the vice president of marketing on some ideas. I'm sitting.
I'm talking with Brad. I'm talking with Gianelli. How do we position this product better? How do we grow the footprint where some new avenues or channels we can explore? I always try to look at that aspect of it. I'm not the technical genius I was back in the day. But the thirst and appetite that I have in growing the community and the business and so forth is really something I hope I can help the community with in any way I can. I think. Yeah, I've definitely observed that a lot. And I know that you, like me, have really thought deeply about the things that we care about, an advised filmmaker or whatever. And it's sort of like just giving the seed to the wind and they take it or they don't.
And sometimes we get to feel good about advice that we gave them years ago that they didn't take. And it was obvious that they should have or things like that. And you and I have had some interesting conversations about about things like that. Yeah, it's it's, you know, the other thing that you learn when working. With Claris is they have goals and agendas. They're a company and they have goals and agendas and and parameters that they have to work within and variables that define what they have to do for revenue, what they have to do for reach, what they have to do with their product and so forth. And sometimes we as developers don't have the full vision of just like they don't have the full vision of what we have to do to run successful businesses all the time.
We're not completely aware of all of the pressures. Or the goals or the achievements that they're focused on. So but that said, I think it's great when we get time to get face to face like this at the conference. I think maybe the number one thing is they started at the keynote with is this is their 100th consecutive quarter of profitability. That that single note I had talked with Brad a week or so earlier about the keynote. And I said, boy, back in the day, Bill Epling, the CFO, used to come. I'm up on stage and show all these charts and graphs about how successful FileMaker was doing. I said, given the climate, you know, you watch Honeycode, which is a platform by Amazon that got recently abandoned.
They dropped it. You see Google with AppMaker and they kind of walked away from their platform and so forth. You see layoffs sometimes in the tech industry and some pressures in this tech space. It's getting crowded at times. I said, we need to know as a community company is doing well. It's healthy. It's strong. We've got good news. We've got good. People around us were hiring. These are all good signals. So I said a lot of these things to Brad a couple of days ago. And I also said, you guys have got this platform. It's been around for 30 plus. And you've got customers that have been in this project product for years, decades. And I said, we like to show the conversation at Angel City Data.
We like to show the conversation of look at this. This slide by PIN USA. This customer has been fantastic with us for over 15 years. Here's their system back in the day. Here's what it is today. And it's still cutting edge and viable. Those are impressive slides, yeah. And so Brad's like, hey, can I use some of the things that you're talking about? And can I use that slide of yours? And I said, absolutely. So it was really a treat to see him talk about the profitability talk, show the slides of some of the things that we were using. So I think I influenced some of the things that were said at the keynote. So a lot of times we feel as file maker consultants and so forth.
We feel we don't have an impact to what this company is doing and can do and what the community can do. And yet here I am just a guy talking with Brad and planting a few seeds and some of those things showed up on a keynote slide. So that's kind of fun. Yeah, for sure. So let's see. I have another question for you and I'll lead with mine while you get your voice cleared from your fifth cup of coffee. So the thing that I have wanted for a really long time is I've wanted Clara Studio to become bit by bit, gradually, quickly. And I think that's what I've been doing for a long time. And I think that's what I've been doing for a long time. To add some features that we have now in FileMaker to kind of take over what WebDirect can do maybe and then maybe even take over what FileMaker Pro can do to take what I think is kind of the maybe the Achilles heel of the platform, which is FileMaker Server.
And so that you can eventually have an application that doesn't have to have it. And it doesn't seem like it's necessarily going in that direction yet. But like for me, you know, having an appliance industrial scale database at the back end and be able to gradually take my clients. There over time is what I've dreamed about. I don't I don't know. I don't get to influence that, but that's what I get to do. What's your dream? What do you wish they would do in the next five years? First and foremost, market more effectively. I think there's still I think we as FileMaker developers still are amazed at how this platform can still compete in such strong areas, even though it's it's dragging, you know, 20 year old technology in some respects.
It's still a compelling application that you can do so many things that you're smart sheets. And your air tables and Google docs and all of those low end offerings can do. It's going to take them a while to get the the engine and all of the componentry in place. And they've got dual agendas. One of the agendas is to go after their compete in the spaces of air table and smart sheet and track via places like that. The other is to retain this glorious following of FileMaker customers that they've been carrying for 20 plus years. So those those two agendas are at odds with each other at times and other times. They pull together. So it's a it's a difficult row to hoe to be able to pull all those legacy customers along in a platform that also is trying to serve that that that new to the web.
Give me your credit card. Here's your database. Let me start creating things. So those are two separate things. And they're they're tough to be able to pull those along in a quick fashion and a changing marketplace. For sure. So where do you think this marketing might happen? I'm like, obviously not Super Bowl ads. I actually joked about that. You know, I said to a couple. Of the people at FileMaker, I said, you know, when you're you're running for mayor in your town, you get all these lawn signs and you pound them in the grass all over the place. I said, yeah, I said, you're you're pounding those lawn signs in your living room. I said, they don't do as much good unless they're out in front of the house.
People where people can see them. I feel like they market a lot to the choir, to the to us people. When you're on the FileMaker website, you are seeing all these great stories and compelling information. When you're out. In the rest of the world, nobody hears about it. We don't see banner ads. We don't see press releases. We don't see news articles. We don't see software reviews on a lot of the software review sites and so forth. So I think there's a lot more public sharing of visibility that could be really beneficial. Yeah, that they should do it themselves and not just rely on the community. Yeah, that's exactly right. Thanks very much for your time. You're welcome.
Here with Michael Gostowitz, I haven't seen you in a while. Well, no one's seen anybody in a while. You moved far away. I did do that, but we also haven't had a conference in four or five years. Yeah, it's been a very long time. Tell me, what have you been up to? I've been working for myself for the past couple of years. I started a company called Stand Up Systems, largely FileMaker development and consulting. Good stuff. And just kind of a normal, regular, everyday FileMaker shop kind of thing? Yeah. Except at $450 an hour? We do fixed monthly things now. Oh, I see. Yeah. What kind of clients do you have? They range from jewelry retail, LASIK eye surgeon, higher education.
Everyone has data and everyone needs to manage it. Super typical, awesome story of a FileMaker shop. So, what are some of the takeaways that you've got here, do you think, that you can put into practice? My goals from FileMaker conferences are, the goal is to be able to find something that I can use now and something I can use later. And I check both those boxes off. yesterday so i feel pretty good about it nice so like give me a quick example of a now and a later not the candy um the now was um being able to use a local file um in combination with a host of file to make um edits that aren't that edits more or less kind of in a draft state that you don't have to worry about hitting real records with uh wait tell me more about that it was i missed that session it was very i forget who did it was it the feature flag one or something else it was it was something else um like in the past we've seen demos where you have the local file and they were doing that to maximize like um performance and that kind of thing which this is but it's in this case they're not doing ui there there's no scripting it's just a dumb local data file so all the layouts are in the hosted file but it's from a to of the local file basically there's a
relationship for the hosted record and the local file if you want to it was typically the example was for editing multiple records at once um like if you're someone made a payment and then you want to be able to split that payment across multiple invoices like how do you do that without using the hosted data or creating records that you don't want to um the new transaction um script steps that clarison introduced may make this kind of technique obsolete um but basically what they're doing is they've got a json object for each record and so whatever the records they want to do they're running a script getting the data real quick creating the records in the local file editing it if they just close the window it goes away and nothing happens to host file if they like it they hit us they hit save i used air quotes but you know y'all can't see me um you hit save and then it posts it yes and then it posts it and it and they're doing perform on script to post it um supposedly it works faster that it would make sense i really love this idea it sort of turns it on its head right because usually we think of like an interface file and all the data is hosted but this is like a data thing locally for and it's
ridiculously quick processing no cost to add fields you can make a thousand records in a blink of an eye yeah calcs will be cheap because it's local so that's a sweet an hour later thing by the way i had the stupid an hour later song stuck in my head from there so what's the later thing um the later was ronnie reis's um the the how to get ai working with this um and you can do it now the the learning curve is going to be able it is creating those prompts as far as describing like the system or the thing that you want ai to be um and then kind of teaching a little bit as far as here's the data that we want to get back or here's what i'm going to give you here's the kind of thing that i want to give you back um so it's going to take a little bit of time for people to figure out how to write those things yeah training right it's not just like you know get my data but there's a lot of steps kind of in between yeah there's a lot of steps in between um so it's going to i mean it's a it's a new thing to play with um and and it can be powerful um and we have to use our words to do it so it might be a challenge but it's going to be a challenge for a lot of us but yeah i imagine we'll get there well getting the technique is one thing and yeah that's a good it's a good direction to be headed in yeah what have you been working on
well i've been uh i got a full-time job doing uh like a vertical market dev with an exciting big project i've got to do a you know start over on a and really do a clean data model which is the absolute dream as a developer and then i'm still doing um navar training teaching classes um which i absolutely love to do passing on the knowledge and passing on kind of what i think are best and having just joy watching people learn uh learn how to use file maker and come into the community and then setting them loose either in there i'm not doing the ad for myself but i guess i'm sharing what i love right um are you doing online training or in-person training it's online i actually did a little bit in person when i was in portland but yeah it's online with zoom and i've put some techniques together that i think make it as or more effective than doing it in person cool is it one-on-one group group yeah it's a group class um uh the class sessions are short couple hours and then each segment is one hour because you can really kind of chomp on that um and yeah with like homework and i looked i took a look at people's demo file and kind of give them feedback on it have one-on-one meetings um yeah kind of a high touch training but it's really really it's fun to do it like beginner level stuff yeah i think i like very beginner probably not it's i call it the file maker champion class so i people come in
maybe as using file maker for six months or so so they have just a bit of understanding how do i get a data model right what's a one-to-one relationship you know really thinking through like the um entities and attributes and join tables um i talk a lot about where to put complexity so a lot of people come to the class who have actually been using file maker for a really long time but then haven't caught up so much because the stuff that they knew 10 years ago was fine and so they really love learning best practices for json let functions case statements api integration kind of some other things that have come along and now transactions and yeah that's awesome yeah thanks elizabeth how much do you hate me i hate you so much matt but it's just because you moved away to greece well i came back though didn't i you came back for clarison cage you did so what have you liked uh what have you learned and um taken away from this um i i have a new um interest and appreciation for better forms um getting very interested in this uh transactions open transaction commit transaction thing and how that might change things and some of my solutions still got one
more session on that to see so i'm still on the diving board haven't really jumped off i'm looking for that too i'm also very excited about better forms kind of i've been trying to get into it it's a little bit hard to get that very first you know hump of learning is it have you have you have you dove into that at all yet i've taken a couple stabs at it in the past years but i think the time has come i gotta really get into it yeah did you go to jake's session yesterday i did not oh yeah i talked to him about it a few times actually and i told him that he has to give me a private redo of the whole thing and he thinks that's really funny it's funny um great so yeah better forms um and i think uh like instead of web direct or like in addition to web director um i think instead of web director i think instead of web director i think instead of web director um i was very excited about web direct when it first came out and there's i still have a pro client actually that's using web direct but it's it's okay for some things it's just not okay for everything like multiple windows solutions yeah you know we are we have a very large application in it and i think it's actually great the performance is phenomenal for like large large number of users um so much better than like a file maker client but you do have work and you have to rely on uh certain features in file maker and avoid others right so card
windows are beautiful but you can't use really check boxes and radio buttons because they just don't format correctly no and they yeah and like you said multi-window solutions multi-window solutions are impossible um and then there's the back button problem uh tell me about that no i'm kidding uh there are some solutions for that though sure sure um but i i think this you know i i've also recently started taking jeremy brown's online course oh yeah he's amazing he's amazing um but i'm at that point where it's like okay you know i've drug my feet long enough on a couple of things js is one um better forms is another so i'm just at that point where i think i'm transitioning to thinking about file maker more as a back-end tool and um having the ui stuff be on the web because that's yeah yeah everyone's living now exactly you're right on the right edge that's where we should all be it's hard to get there not anymore well i mean maybe we'll see yeah we'll see uh yeah good thanks very much for your time thank you matt and welcome home briefly and safe travels thanks day two of the conference drawing to the closer with brian from data frame hi how you doing matt really good so um
uh you had a change in company let's talk briefly about that then we'll talk about the conference so two years ago uh let's see about i guess i guess roughly two years ago uh we uh we're dealing with a lot of uh government stuff uh mainly retirement systems and things of that nature so we were we had a pension software product that uh that we were working on heavily and uh right about that time we decided to pivot and and change over to the uh non-profit space and just kind of offload that so we wound up selling that business which turned out to be quite nice and uh yeah and so that's allowed us to channel all of our resources uh and focus more on the other side of our business which is our data frame company now and uh from there we've been focusing on the non-profit space for uh housing discrimination loan discrimination uh all those all those uh areas that deal with you know the enforcement of of the local laws you know from different areas for different states and you know education so there's a whole piece for education on that side of things and financial you know finance for grant tracking and things of that nature and that's that's been our primary area of growth now for a company it's gotta feel great to like uh have a successful
company but that also is in a good space and then be able to to work on something that really puts back into society huh yeah actually it's it's it is quite gratifying actually to be able to work on a product like this because it's definitely something that's that's highly rewarding you know you definitely feel like you're making a difference in the world and uh you know and you know it's it's been slow growth but uh we're starting to pick up steam which is which is good you know especially since we've you know it's kind of been our side project for over the last 10 years so it's yeah so it's kind of been something that uh we started out as it originally just started out as a small project for for one agency and then by word of mouth you know this is oh i'm encouraged you did this and it's like oh we're interested in this too and so it's it's just slowly been picking up steam and you know and and as time goes on and we gather more clients we get more expertise we get you know we get their input and and then you know of course the challenge with with a lot of non-profits is is just trying to get anybody to agree on standards and everybody thinks differently so totally different roles in different states and stuff like that oh sure yeah yeah there's yeah so finding those commonalities you know and trying to get things to get get many people to agree on terminologies you know all those fun things so let's talk tech so this is web direct huh yes yes uh the entire solution is currently working and we're working on it and we're
working on it as a web direct and that's pretty much just been been our our main way of of delivering this and it's actually been quite helpful because it's allows us to deploy the solution really really fast so anytime there's a change you know that gets made you know customer needs something updated we can get it pushed out not a problem yeah are you in the sba program solution bundled okay yes yes yeah we are we are partners and in the sba have been for for many many years you know that's primarily there we started out in the sba when we were you know doing our government side of the business with the retirement systems and things like that so yep so it's just kind of how we've been steadily moving forward and and able to gain traction so it's been good so what are the technical things you've had that you've had to overcome with web d would you say um well to be honest i i don't think we've really had to deal with a lot of issues up to up to this point i mean mainly because i've been you know very focused on what's the best way to design the interface you know just you know for for it to work you know in web direct in an efficient manner so i've always been focused on making sure you know the interface design is clean it's a simplified everything in theme yeah yes yes everything themed everything is locked down and standardized and yes yes so as
little overhead as possible so yeah it's it's just it's it's been definitely been a fun experience you know we i've always been playing with you know web direct and and mobile and things like that just on the side just just for fun so it's definitely paid off having that focus i've been talking to people about um better forms what they call that as fm better forms is the proper name yes as like sort of that versus web direct because it's a quite a different um way to do it i think i've had others on the podcast before like charles delphs talking about it as well sure sure yeah yeah we spoke with charles delphs uh a little bit about about using fm better forms and that may still be in our future uh it's hard to say we're we're crossing that bridge as as we get to it but i think it's a good way to do that i think it's a good way to do that but uh mainly we're going to also see what happens with clara studio because quite frankly that could easily take over that space at least from my perspective i mean be completely off base on that but uh at least for for what our needs would could you know would be for that potentially yeah for the new stuff that they showed here or where it's going i agree with you it'd be it's something you'd be interesting i still have well uh i guess the testing i've done especially living overseas and only happening in one data center there's some pretty major just issues of dealing with a hundred or a thousand records that shouldn't be there but i think when when they expand it more and it's in more places i think they'll fix that yeah yeah well yeah i
it'll be interesting to see where it goes um uh i'm excited you know to see to see what direction they're going to take with studios certainly um i'll be excited to uh to start testing it more hardcore once they actually uh get across some of those bridges for the external authentication that they still need to work on um so i i know that's a good way to do that still going to be a stumbling block you know it's not everybody's going to want to have a clarice id or an apple id just to connect to the product you know so it's got other other other you know forms of authentication just to get in so the less complexity the better you know at least from the user's perspective uh certainly so yeah so yes it'll be it'll be something i don't know i'm actually looking forward to playing with connect and playing with studio and in the next few months to come and then seeing what we can get going on that yeah i've heard um just i don't know much to put in it but from other people i talked about at webd that if you if you deploy the server on an m3 uh like a mac mini kind of a thing which you shouldn't do but basically that type of silicon which is um which is you know not intel but uh amd but it's a ton faster for webd oh interesting interesting i have that's one of the things i'm i'm still trying to wrap my head around a bit more on on the webd side we've mainly been focused you know using aws servers and windows
and we want to get away from that certainly we want to move more towards you know the linux deployments and uh start leveraging you know the you know the performance benefits that's definitely going to be bringing uh that combine that with auto which is now free amazing wait what yeah auto is free now did not know yes yes so they've they've released it okay it's it's free product uh they're they're still allowing people to you know you know pay for service if they need no support and things like that but it's had you been using it no no but i have i mean for for us you know i think using auto is definitely going to be a requirement once we move over to the linux side because i'm used to deploying files yeah used to doing all the stuff manually and you know using the file maker data migration tool you know and you know trying so having that speed up our our processes for you know versioning and things like that will be a godsend yeah for sure yes that's we're looking forward to that as well so yeah lots lots of new things on the horizon cool what are your one or two takeaways from the or let give me 17 things you've liked about the conference 17 just go with the one or two well um in order yeah well i think the most exciting thing i mean obviously the biggest reason why i came to the conference this year was uh the fact that ai is out there and it is
got to be something that you have to start leveraging you know for sure in one form or another so i was really excited to uh start attending you know some sessions this this uh this conference and and start learning how to do that you know what's the easiest way to achieve that and i think it's going to be a great way to do that i think it's going to be a great way to do that i think it's going to be a great way to do that i think it's going to be a great way to achieve that and you know what what can we do with it you know it's like once you understand how to connect to it once you understand how to do the prompts and all of those things then how is how do you leverage it to make it useful to you in your particular solution right so it's not a solution looking for a problem but actually a meaningful thing kind of yeah yeah yeah i mean some of the ways i've heard some people using it effectively so far has been for things like you know like transcribing uh conversations i i believe i think zoom and some of their uh services actually already offer an automatic transcription service yeah for meetings and things of that nature so maybe they're already leveraging zoom is built in like in real time you can do that uh what i dream about is this because a teacher especially sure i dream about a um something where each person who's on a zoom call can have whatever they listen to and whatever they say translated from their language uh to the languages of everybody else on the zoom call oh wow so like you could have so if you have people who speak five different languages it doesn't translate everything to english it like it translates it from you know so if you got an
english person a french person a greek person or whatever they i mean it's not going to be perfect of course sure sure but uh it's be a lot of horsepower but how great would it be to just kind of level the playing field it'd be a universal translator yeah yeah if someone if someone knows if somebody knows about that please email me yeah matt at navar dot training yeah that would be that would be amazing really truly i mean it would it would break down so many barriers and just being and effectively in meetings and you know with anybody in any country in the world that would be that would be amazing well it can't not get there right it's it's inevitable because all the technology is already there it's just it's just multiplying it because you can already translate from one language to any other language with stuff we've had for a long time it's just basically doing that in parallel in in pairs on a single call and like how how to make that uh you know monetarily worthwhile whatever sure sure sure yeah i mean i know i've seen you know some some things out there that people have been trying to do for you know translation mostly and it's like oh you stick device up to somebody's face and you know then people can listen and go oh yes i know what you're saying you know kind of thing so that's that's that's pretty cool but so i i can just imagine you know the potential of of how how well that could work you know in those types of situations with you know being able to do things whether that be zoom or whatever
service you use any any anything like that so yeah so ai obviously a big takeaway what else well ai has been the biggest so far uh out of all the things i've been interested in learning about at this particular point uh the other pieces that i've i've really been wanting to to really just connect with uh here at the convention of have just quite frankly just been you know studio and and connect you know because those are those are things that uh are definitely looming on the horizon for us as well and and with they they have a lot of potential a lot of promise and i'm i'm quite frankly very very excited to start trying to you know leverage those those technologies so we can actually make things a lot easier for us i haven't built a custom connector yet i have to really get on that have you done one yet i have not done any custom connectors i've mostly done all of my own you know api calls using you know the insert from url so you know tying into amazon you know web services you know s3 things like that for document storage and and and you know tying into other government you know services you know using their soap apis and other fun things like that yeah yeah it's amazing really sometimes you know just how little people understand about the under the hood things you know when it comes to it's like oh well you know you have to use this tool or that tool
it's like no at the very basic level it's just a https call that's all it is you know you're just sending data and a lot of people when you talk to support people they don't understand that but yeah so getting support on thing you know things sometimes it's been a bit of a struggle yeah but you know you know you just stick with it and keep keep slugging away at the problem until you figure out you know the right way to put the comma or the you know the single exactly chat gpt can fix grammar things you can if you're working on this big file maker calculation and it's not working because you can't save it or whatever you just copy and paste it in chat you can say find the error and fix it yeah it does a good job yeah i actually was just talking to uh one of the file maker uh reps just earlier after the ai session and he was he was just saying he's i don't know if we what what which ai version they were using but this is somebody was actually able to get it to write file maker code and produce the xml where you just literally copied and pasted i've suspected that was going to be coming yeah yeah so that's like because file maker when you copy code to the clipboard like a grab a table or grab a whatever script it is just xml on the clipboard right so yeah yeah it's one one of the tools i i really really have enjoyed over the years too is the clipboard you know the fm clipboard and uh so that's that's always been
something so you it's always kind of fun you can look at the clipboard and you can look at the under the hood and see see all the rocks and then tweak it and then you know do those types of wonderful tricks and and then paste it back in yeah so it's still going to be yeah i don't know it's going to be okay but it's not going to be phenomenal yeah yeah but uh yeah so yeah it's it's only a matter of time really i guess that's true that's true thanks very much for your time right yeah i appreciate it thank you matt