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Live at CodeWave in Valencia, Spain – Javier Durá & Doug Wallis
While presenting a JSON and Beyond session at the CodeWave conference in Spain, I had the chance to sit down with Javier Durá and Doug Wallis. Javier of Afterdata and Jesús Sánchez of dbFile have been hosting this conference for years to serve the large and healthy FileMaker community in Spain. There were 61 people at the conference this year, and about 10 of us were non-native Spanish speakers. S
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Transcribed by machine (whisper, large model), 15,197 words. Names and product terms are sometimes misheard; the audio is the record.
Welcome to Claris Talk AI. This is Matt Navar, and I have been live at the CodeWave conference in Valencia, Spain, for the last couple of days, April 25th and 6th. And I had two lovely conversations, one with Javier Dura, who's the co-sponsor of the event, and one with Doug Wallace, the platform evangelist for Claris. Enjoy. All right. Javier. Hello, sir. Good to see you. It's really exciting to be at your conference for the first time. It's your first time in Valencia. First time in Valencia, and first time at CodeWave. So you've been doing this for 30 years? How long? We started doing an event called FM Valencia back in 2008. And then we have been organizing many, many fine maker events.
Yeah, that's a long time. And yeah, we stopped because of the pandemic. But last year, we made our first CodeWave, and now it's the second year. So the main news is that this... The main news is that this is in Valencia, which is not the main city in Spain, but we live here, and that's the reason why. It's a much larger city than I thought, with the eight-lane highways and whatnot across the street here. Yeah. So I guess it's, what, Madrid first, and then... Yeah, Madrid, Barcelona, and Valencia. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, and you live here, and there's people from all over Spain. But what I was surprised and happy to see is there's people from really all over.
From all over Europe, here. Yeah. You know, this event is in Spanish, because I want this to be... I want to have a Spanish event, because there's a big community here. There are many events in English, so we want to differentiate a little bit of those events. And not all the people in Spain can speak English, so I think that it's important to have this event in Spanish. And also to have an event close to that people. We don't need to travel so far away to have a good fine maker event. So if they can have an event in maybe a two-hour trip in a train, that's perfect. I know, it's great. Yeah, it's close to both the other cities by train, two or three hours.
Yeah. So my session, and I think Doug's session, the opening one, were in English. I found a plug-in, or an extension. An extension for Chrome that translated in real-time from English to Spanish. So there was basically a super title on the screen. Really useful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would also be useful for all of the Spanish sessions to have that Spanish to English, because I think there's about eight people here that don't speak Spanish well. Yeah. We have Douglas, we have Ben, and two other people from Belgium. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe you should have told me that first. I didn't know. I found the thing last night. Because I thought it would be a good idea.
And it was, yeah, it's free, and it was much more effective than I even thought, so. Yeah, maybe next year we can do it. Yeah, yeah. It would be easy enough to do, just like make a little space on your screen. So how many people are here at the conference? We have 61 attendees, plus 10 more people that can get into what we call the offline event. We have a... We have a special dinner at the casino, and then we have a stand-up comedian. Yes. In Spanish, that's what's really, really funny, Raúl Antoine. Yeah, I heard, except a thick accent, and yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, everybody was laughing from the first moment, and he's a nice guy. He's a nice guy, yeah.
Yeah, that's, you can't really translate that one. No, no, there's a lot of jokes that, I mean, it's not... Yeah, it's a situational one. It's not possible. Yeah, I know. But still, I'm glad it was fun for everybody here. So you're right, that's quite a large community, 61 people. I don't know that any other country in Europe has that many developers that I can think of at a local language conference. I know there's one in France, and the one that used to be in Berlin is now going to be in Vienna. That's Vienna calling. Yeah, that's in English. And that one's in English. The one in Italy is kind of in Italian and English. One year, they actually translated it.
It's been in Rome. but it's gonna be in a different city this year. - But they moved to only English. - Yeah. - And then Evelyn decide not to do any other Rome Five-Maker Week, but she changed her mind, and now they moved to Naples. - Yeah, yeah. - Naples, and in October, it will be that event in Naples. - Yep, Naples, English. And then, well, it's okay, you know, Espanol. - Hispania. - Hispania. - Hispania is the Greek for Spain. And then there's a November conference in-- - Antwerp. - Yeah, that's the big European one. I think that we can compare Engage You with Engage in the State. I mean, Engage You has become a very big event. Johan and Joris, they are making a good job working on this event.
Many people attending. Many people attending from the States, from Clarice, and it's the one to be, of course. We have this event in Spain because we prefer that people meet each other in person. In fact, we are not offering any kind of streaming or online tickets or so on. - Right. - No, no. - Yeah. - Because we want them to take a train, to have the opportunity to meet each other. - Absolutely. - That each other. - Yeah, and you did everything right. All the good things about FileMaker conferences in the past, you nailed 100%. It's in a lovely hotel, not an expensive price. - Yeah. - The social events were great, very well planned, and really good to, I've met a lot of people and had really, really good networking.
- Yeah, you know, what I do with Jesus, my colleague, we prepare this event, and what I try to do is make, make the things that I like to have in any events that I attend. I've been attending DecMods, for example, in the state. - Yes. - In San Diego in 2013. - Yeah, the good ones, yeah. - And I know that if I am in a room, I want my table with enough space for my laptop. I want to be able to plug my computer. - Yep. - I want a good wifi connection, good food, of course. Lunch was great yesterday. - Yeah, so if we are organizing an event, makes sense that we get all these things. So it's not always easy because it's only a small event. - Yeah. - So probably you go to a hotel, they say no, we need 200 people, or you need to book in advance 50 rooms or 100 rooms.
But we are really happy with this venue this year. - Yeah. - I mean, people come to me and say, hey, nice hotel, nice room, good internet connection, good screen. - Yeah, actually you can even use the conference internet in your room. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, so the meeting internet is available not only here, but it's also in the room, which is great. I think it's higher speed. Yeah, there's so much about this that I have really enjoyed. And the sessions have been very technical, many of them, which is great. And I'm gonna need the slides 'cause I have to be able to-- - So the thing that we want from people, from speakers, is that they open FileMaker. - Yes. - We don't know only a keynote.
- Yeah. - We want to know the scripts, workspace. - Yeah. - In other, the under the hood, how do you do this? - Yeah, I'm glad to hear that because I thought most of my presentation was . - Yeah. Yeah, because this is a technical event and we want technical session. We are FileMaker developers. - Yes. - I don't want you to tell me that FileMaker's a great tool. - Right. - We all know that. - Show me. - So show me one technique or two or three, something that when I arrive to my office next Monday, I'll be able to replicate that or to copy that script. - Yeah. - Or that custom function. - Yes. - And start using it immediately. That's the point and that's something that we ask to the speakers to do.
- Yeah, that's good. And I've seen definitely that in some, not all sessions, but many. Some of them have been more informational. And like background, extremely good knowledge to have and good messages. It didn't necessarily need to be FileMaker. - Yeah. - And I really value that too. - We need to use the right tools for the right situation. And we have FileMaker, which is like a hub that can connect almost to everything. And we have to be aware of any API or system or whatever that is outside that we can include in our FileMaker solutions that can give some additional value to our application, yeah. - Yeah, I love that. Were there challenges? What are the difficulties and work that you have to do to put on something like this?
- Sometimes they ask for things that FileMaker or Crysis Connect or Studio cannot do. So for example, I gave a session, how can we, send one Boolean question to 400 waiters, asking if they can work one particular date. - Mm-hmm. - And this solution is for a catering company here in Spain. And what I propose and they accept is to connect FileMaker with Typeform. So via API, we create a Typeform form, and then we send the link to the waiter, and he just click yes or no. Submit, and that answer goes from Typeform to Crysis Connect to FileMaker, and the answer is there immediately. - Yeah, that's amazing. And this is just, it goes by SMS, I guess? A text message? - No, I mean, they used to work with-- - How does the message go out to the waiter?
- Email. - To the server? - Yeah. - By email? - By email, yeah. I create the form, and I send a link via email to the waiter. - Okay. - He click the link, open Typeform. But this is a particular form just for this waiter? - Yes. - And for this event? - Most likely, I'm guessing that they're gonna be using it on their mobile phone, so they'll open up the email, and it'll go to a page and kind of be formatted for that. That's why I was wondering if it was an SMS message, like a text or WhatsApp or something. I think there was a WhatsApp integration session. - Yeah, there was a WhatsApp integration, but this is a really important difference between SMS and WhatsApp.
- Yeah. - Because SMS is a standard, like a standard. - Not so much here, though. - No, because most of the people move to WhatsApp. - Yeah. - But WhatsApp is a private app from a private company, from Meta. - Yeah. - So there's many things you should consider before moving from SMS. - Yeah, I use, it seems like in Greece, most people use Viber. - Viber? - Viber, yeah. - Not here in Spain. - Yeah, interesting. And then Telegram. I don't use Signal. There's a super funny story about that in the US. - Yeah. - So I have like a lot of them, right? Like Facebook Messenger. I have like five different apps to communicate with different people 'cause they all have different ones they prefer.
- You know, nowadays, if you receive a WhatsApp, you really don't mind. You receive hundreds of them. - Yeah. - But if you receive a text, an SMS, you read it because maybe it comes from the government, from the health system. So the important pieces of information come from SMS. - Interesting. Okay. - And text. Not from WhatsApp. - That's very country specific. - Yeah, that's what happened in Spain, as much as I know. - Good to know. Yeah, I guess when I, well, we're getting a little off topic, but it's interesting, I think. In living in Europe, from America, you still must have a US phone number to be able to log on to your bank and to log on to a lot of sites that require a message.
Most of those sites cannot send a message to an internet. It's an international phone. And they also can't send to a WhatsApp for the US. So they have to send an SMS to a US phone number, so. - In fact, we, here in Spain, you can integrate FileMaker with third-party companies that can send an SMS. And when you receive the SMS, the sender is not a number, but a name. For example, in my case, I can say after data, hello, whatever. But that's something that is not allowed. It's not allowed in the United States. - Yeah. - It should be a number. - Yeah, that's true. Interesting. - Different countries. - Yeah, yeah. Let's get back to the conference. - Okay. - We can nerd out about anything all day long.
So I guess I just want to say thank you for doing it. It's been really, really valuable to be here. So the closing session's later today. - Yeah. - Gosh, I'm just trying to think of other things about it that you've done that I really like. Well, what else do you want to say about it otherwise? - Well, there's a lot of work behind this event. There's only two companies in the file from my colleague Jesus and me. So I encourage any other partner, any other company or any other developer that wants to host an event in his city, come on, just do it. We are here to help or to share our experience, our knowledge, because it's not that much. Because many people say, "Okay, Jabir and Jesus "are hosting this event, so they are the ones."
No, I mean, the most important thing is that we have the space to meet each other. It doesn't have to be a nice hotel. It can be a bar, a small room. That's not the most important thing. - Yesterday, after the conference and before, the dinner, in Spain, dinner's at nine o'clock. Like a significant number of people, I don't know, 30 people, all were together socializing at an Irish pub down the street. That was amazing. - And good weather. - Yeah, and good weather, yeah. 'Cause otherwise we would have been inside, right? No big deal. But that planning is something that I think is also extremely valuable. You have the networking down, and I really appreciate it.
I think I would really encourage people from the US to, which is, I think, maybe most of the people who listen to and watch this podcast, come to Europe. The conferences here were amazing. - Yeah, of course, of course. And of course, thank you for attending. - Oh, of course, yeah. - Your session has been very valuable for most of the attendees. - Good, I hope so. - Especially for those that are not using JSON yet. And you know, every time you talk about JSON, I say, you should start learning JSON right now. - Yeah. - Stop doing whatever you're doing now, and learn JSON. - Well, I mean, that's like a push approach, right? But what I was trying to do was show, hey, these are some really great use cases that solves really basic file maker problems.
Like one of them I'll just mention. Every single database I've seen that's old has some fields in it that you don't think are needed anymore. - Yeah. - You can't just delete 'em, because you might need them. And maybe there's a couple of layouts that still have them on there and you don't know. Maybe some users use it, maybe they don't. And sometimes there's a lot of them. So one method that I have is you make a JSON field in that table, and then you use a JSON set element that puts in the name of the field and the value in the field, and you have all of them. So if you've got 10 fields, you can just basically set those 10 values in there. Then after you replace the contents of the JSON field with that data, append it to whatever was already there, then you can delete those fields safely.
And then if there's layouts that need it, you can use a JSON get element from that data, from the JSON, and then you can display it on the layout. So you lose nothing except the ability to enter data or to search. But if those fields are most likely being deleted, and then if you need to reinstate the field, all you have to do is recreate the field, and then use the replace command to grab that data from the JSON, - Yeah. - and then you can use the replace command to grab that data from the JSON, - Yeah. - and then you can use the replace command to grab that data from the JSON, - Yeah. - and then you can use the replace command to grab that data from the JSON, - Yeah. - and then you can use the replace command to grab that data from the JSON, and so it's a totally undoable way to safely delete fields.
- JSON is a great way to save data. In fact, all the registered process of the registration that we made for this event was made via Chloris Studio, Chloris Connect, and then FileMaker. So what we did is as soon as a new record is created in Chloris Studio, it sends that information, a big JSON, to Chloris Connect, - Mm-hmm. - and then we just and then we just created a record in a FileMaker database. - Interesting, so you're not using the direct connection from Connect or from Studio FileMaker, yeah. - No, because so far, it doesn't work as expected. It's really, really slow after that, making a search. - Yeah, it's true. - So what we do is we create a new record in a FileMaker table, and we fill JSON field, that's it.
and we fill JSON field, that's it. I mean, a next field with this JSON, with a whole JSON. And after that, with our auto-introductions, And after that, with our auto-introductions, - Mm-hmm. - And after that, with our auto-introductions, we get the information that we need. - Yeah. - That's it. - That's easy, right? Because when you get the data from Studio, it's gonna give you the data in JSON anyway, 'cause that's what Connect does. It wraps up the table data from whatever source into JSON. Yeah, yeah, JSON, like I said in the thing, it's basically kind of my religion right now. - Yeah, and now if you think about how we work back in FileMaker 15 or so, I think how can we live without JSON? - I know, yeah.
- In those days. - Well, I just didn't know what I didn't know at the time. So I've been, I'm a pretty diehard FileMaker, and JSON's been around for a very long time. - Yeah, but there's some people that say, "I'm too old to learn JSON," and say, "No." - It's just so easy. - Yeah, and it's easy. - Yeah, to start. - Cool. - Yeah, thanks for your time. - Okay, thank you for attending the event, and thank you for this chat. - Of course, thanks. - All right. - Doug, hello. - Hey, Matt, how are you doing? - Very good. My fellow evangelist. - Thank you. Yeah, that's my new title now from Claris. - Yeah, what was it before? - So I've been doing multiple stuff at Claris, been there for about 11 years.
Essentially started like a lot of the guys in the company, a system engineer, which is kind of evangelism. I moved to the product team during, well, after COVID, and then a year ago moved back to evangelism with Rick Kalman, and the idea behind it is we do great products, but we do realize that we don't actually talk enough to the community. We don't actually explain a lot of things that we do to the idea, which actually have people that know the product, know how it's been built, actually talk to customers and partners and say, "This is what you can do." - And then I think before that, you had been a FileMaker developer forever, yeah? - Yeah, I was one of those guys who basically fell in love with FileMaker back in '98, just stumbled into it with my first company that I worked with.
I was amazed how quickly you can actually learn it, some of the stuff that you can do. I was creating some exports in XML for a large customer that we had when people were just amazed. - You were telling me about it. It sounded really complex. - Well, the thing, it was complex in other languages, but in FileMaker, it made it so easy with the calculation engine of creating XML export. I was just overwhelmed with what I can do, and used it as a user for about 15 years, and ended up sort of starting working for the company. Because I love the software, I was like, "This is basically the best job on the planet." I get to actually use it and influence the way it's been built.
- Yeah. - And explain to people how to use it. - Your opening session was amazing. - Thank you. - Yeah, presented really well, also great information, perfect teasers about the things that are coming, openly shared, and yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to revisiting the slides. I think not only that, but there's actually useful things you can do right now, and there's a different version, so thanks for that. - Yeah, yeah. A lot of the work that we're doing now on the FileMaker, especially on the server, is like we've been mentioning at Clarisse Engage, and what I did yesterday, was talking about our vision of how we want people to be able to actually use AI.
And the vision that we have is, at Clarisse, we build basically the tools so that you can actually do whatever you want with it. And we did realize that with FileMaker 21, we had a lot of people going is, "I want to start using AI in my system, "but I'm not really sure whether I want to use open AI "or other providers." And if I want to use an open LLM, it's kind of, sort of, takes a bit of work to actually use it first time around, and to install it and everything. - Yeah. - So we had the engineer go is, "How could we actually use what everyone knows in FileMaker, "which is the admin console?" And the click of a button, everything works. And what I showed yesterday, and what people will be able to actually get when FileMaker 20, 25 come out this summer, is at a quite quick button, you will have open LLM running on your server, and you can get your file, and then start enjoying all the benefit from AI.
- Yeah, well, if you don't want to use all the other models now, but that'll be great to be able to have it so local. And then RAG also, I haven't been able to do. - RAG as well, fine-tuning, everything that people need to actually sort of have. - That's amazing, 'cause those are hard to do right now. - They are hard to do, and it is kind of scary because there's a lot of, there's a bit of learning that you absolutely get into. So we're doing by steps, like when we launched FileMaker 20, 24, we were trying to get people to go as well, the first step to actually learn is the difference between index searching in FileMaker and semantic search. - Yeah. - Because your mentality, the way of looking at your system is actually changing.
- Yes. - So if we get people to actually kind of do step-by-step, once we have RAG and fine-tuning, if they understand how semantic search works, it's gonna be easier for them to actually sort of go to the next step. - Yeah. I'm doing an all-day AI class using a lot of these use cases because I really strongly believe in finding some good, solid use cases. You present some of those. - Yeah. - If you're interested, you can go to my website, I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description. So if you're interested, you can go to my website, I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description, and I'll put the link in the description,
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