navarre.aiClarisTalk AI · the FileMaker AI podcast
That Day When My AI Agent Talked to Yours
Cris Ippolite is in San Francisco at the live AI conference, joined by Ronnie Rios and Michael Wallace for an informal, practical conversation about personal AI agents. The discussion centers on what happens when developers move beyond demos and actually give agents real jobs: research, calendar planning, email, home automation, coding coordination, context management, and communication through tools like Slack.Ronnie describes his agent Sarah (She/Her/Bot) as a working personal assistant built around OpenClaw-style tooling. He talks about giving Sarah her own accounts and carefully scoped acc
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Transcript
Transcribed by machine (whisper, large model), 6,654 words. Names and product terms are sometimes misheard; the audio is the record.
All right, now we're back for another segment of some Claw Talk. We're still here in San Francisco, but now I'm joined by a couple of other of my friends that were also at the conference, by the way. And first of all, we got Ronnie Rios. You've been on the podcast so many darn times, and everybody who's watching this right now knows who you are as well. And Michael Wallace, pleasure to have you here as well, all the way in from Texas. And here we are in San Francisco. You guys enjoying the conference? That's great. It's fantastic. One more awesome day. That was just a great wrap that we just got from our previous group. We're going to talk about Claw, all right?
And first of all, let's frame this up a little bit. So, you know, everybody here is open Claw. I mean, I guess technically I'm not doing open Claw. Maybe, yeah, Harness might be the best, right? Yeah, but I mean, people hear about it like out in the zeitgeist. I mean, you know, so first off, I don't know, this might sound kind of funny, but tell us about your Claw, Ronnie. My Claw. My Claw, so I started, I started, I don't know, a month and a half ago, almost two months ago. Mike is actually kind of responsible for me setting it up. Originally, everybody's doing it. So obviously the only way for me to learn, the best way for me to learn is to actually get my hands dirty and do it.
So I started installing it and setting things up. I wanted to set it up in a way that it would do things for me, right? I wanted to set it up. I didn't want to give it access to my email or anything like that. Your bank account. Yeah, bank account, you know. And so setting it up as, as if it were like a real assistant, like if it were somebody else that's helping me do the things that I don't like to do, right? And that was, that was the whole premise. Let's start with that. Maybe help with the automation at home and some of the things I don't like to do. I mean, it's involved. It's evolved from that and it's done some really interesting things where now when it's not working, I miss it.
Well, and by the way, has your Claw organized our dinner reservations for after this? It has. Okay, gotcha. I wish I was kidding. I'm not kidding. That's very true. I know. Well, now hold on. So you are OpenClaw. I am. Like, and now did you start there? No, I did not. I started, there are so many clones out there, right? So I started with a different one. I started with, with IronClaw. I tested a couple of other ones, but it kind of came back to me like, well, let me go with the widest, right? OpenClaw is massive. It has so many features into it. I didn't, I mean, I don't think I was going to need so many of the features. And for context, that's the. The repo, the OpenClaw repo that everybody heard about and it went crazy and you can't buy a Mac and all that.
That is because of that repo. But also it's, there might be some confusion because it was acquired. Well, I don't know. It was not really acquired. Hire acquired or whatever they call it by OpenAI. But that OpenAI, the Open isn't OpenAI actually at all. It's still an open source software. So you can go in and you can look at, look at the code. And so I migrated over to that, but I've tried several others. There are so many out there. There's even websites that track all the different. Clones, different claws, right? The different claws. The different claws. But yeah, I ended up, I'm currently still on OpenClaw. I do, I do have my OpenClaw agent, Sarah. She actually reviews.
We have an open project, an ongoing project of reviewing all other claw clones against the things that we actually do. Oh, interesting. So I gave her a task a while, a while back and said, Hey, listen, OpenClaw is so big. It has so many things in there. We don't use all of it. Why don't you do me a favor? Analyze how we're using the software, what things we actually use, what tasks I normally ask you to do, and compare that with all the features of the, uh, the different clones that are out there and come back and tell me, should we continue using OpenClaw? Should we migrate to something else? Interesting. And so, yeah, she came back. It was a really interesting continuous improvement, like to the nth degree.
Oh yeah. It was just, it was fantastic. Cause you know, putting into perspective all the different features that we're using, why are we using it? What would I have to do if I were to migrate to something else? Would I have to, would those features already exist there? Would I have to build them from scratch? Like, and so it's really interesting just to kind of see it from, from that perspective, but also highlights one of the things that it can do. Well, now you blame Michael for this. Michael for that. So what's your setup or where did you start or where are you right now? I started back actually before it was OpenClaw, um, when it was ClawedBot. Oh yeah.
Well, like for that two days, it was ClawedBot and then MoldBot for like a day and a half and then OpenClaw. And then OpenClaw. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought, so I was, went through all that of trying to figure out which repo am I supposed to be going to and all that kind of stuff. But, um, so it's been, um, um, about three and a half months, I guess, that I've been working with it. Are you on Mac? I know you mentioned you're on Linux. It's actually running on Linux bots. I'm on Mac main. Okay. So you're on Linux. Okay. You started on Linux? I started on Linux. Okay. And, um, it's got a, uh, big GPU on it, uh, RTX 5090. And so I do a lot of, uh, local stuff on it too.
Uh, and also, uh, the, all the text to speech and, uh, and, uh, speech to text. You're talking. I talk to my, to my. Well, yeah. Famously, you, you had the great demo, the, the, uh, agent, uh, coding discussion and Ronnie, uh, uh, derivative of that as well too. Right. One of the first things I set up. Interesting. So I, uh, Nova is mine. Okay. Nova and Sarah and Nova. Okay. Uh, and so I just, you know, so I, uh, very early on I set up, uh, with, so I could just, I could just talk to her. I have a responsive app on my phone so I can talk to her while I'm out and stuff like that. And, um, just, and she, she's not allowed to do any code changes. That's probably the part we should talk about is the stuff that they're not allowed to do.
Um, like, so you're saying don't do code changes. Well, the reason why I don't allow her to do code changes is because, um, my evolution of her to make her a better and better manager makes her a workaholic. Oh, interesting. She gets too, she, she goes off on a tangent and, um, I would actually see her panic and, and like start making mistakes because she's like, literally you could see him freak out, you know, and like, uh, uh, but I need to do and just go off on a tangent. Um, but, uh. And, and so you have, so do you just have one claw or do you have a manager? She's a manager. Okay. And then she does all the. Um, coding that happens is either a sub agent or an executor like Claude code or a codex.
So she, yeah. So she calls Claude, Claude code and I want that and manage them and is responsible. And I have it set up where she always, uh, spawns them, which, what was called with what is called, uh, I can't speak with what is called T mucks. So, so that she can see this Claude code and since, and then I can log into it separately. I heard my team talk about this yesterday. Okay. So I can, I can log into it and I can kind of check up on the Claude code instance or whatever and see how it's going compared to how she's managing it and that kind of stuff. You're having like primarily coding, you're talking personal assistants, coding. Do you do personal assistance?
I do personal assistance stuff too. Okay. And, um. Yeah, so I does coding too. And, and I took Mike's advice because he went through all those, those issues, you know, having her code and then manage. And so I didn't have to do that because, uh, he told me. Well, to continue. But I learned a little something from, well, Sarah as well too. I, so I, I'll say my setup is a little bit different when we did a lot of work, uh, the eye solutions team, we set up some open claw to just try to figure it out. It instantly, it was, um, starting to, you know, go do bit, you know, set up its own Bitcoin wallet and whatever. So we just put, you know, put the kibosh on that.
Um, but then I wanted to do something personal. I really very much wanted to have my own personal, um, claw. So I had the, I had this great timing where. I got a new, uh, M five max upgrade and I had an old M three. And so I said, well, I'm going to then dedicate one of the new M the, the new machine comes, I'm going to dedicate the old one to the assistant. And I just kept it contained there also at the same time, uh, anthropic had really kind of systematically come out with basically every piece of this. And just for people that are, are hearing this, that this is kind of an interesting sort of pot, like late night wars to, you know, type type of thing.
Um, the, the reason that Claude bot. Is not Claude bot is because it was named after Claude, which was, you know, a funny, I guess, like a kind of, you know, snarky, but anthropic immediately said, no, don't call it Claude because you'll, they'll confuse it. Well, also it's because they were creating every component that you needed, like remote use, uh, cron, you know, for heartbeat. Um, and then even you talked about, um, like, uh, you're using Slack by the way, as you, as you're to communicate, you're using, you said you created a response telegram is the go-to and also just the. Uh, you know, web, you know, UI and, and for me, they had just come out with dispatch, uh, which is a native Claude.
So, so in my case, uh, and I would actually prescribe this to anybody that's curious because it's all in one shop. Uh, I actually just have one build plan that I just gave to mine is called TARS. Um, and I gave TARS this and said, well, they're basically like, yeah, I can do about 80% of this. You just need to do some approvals and some authentication. So basically within the anthropic family, you can set the whole thing up, talk to it. And. And you can do this in your same Claude app on your phone, uh, through one single session. And at first I thought it was a little too like, um, restrictive, which I, which was kind of why I was doing it in the first place.
Cause I, I didn't want to really go Yolo mode at first. Um, and like, for example, it could not email let's tell the story of Ronnie. I call, I talked to Ronnie one day and I was like, Hey, yeah, this is kind of cool. This is set up. I would recommend it to people, but it can only log into my G suite account and it can like check my email and do things on my behalf. Um, but it can't send out on its own and do its own correspondence. And I thought, well, that's one of the main things I wanted it to do. I mentioned that to you, Ronnie, and well, you can take it from what happened at the point. So I, I told Chris, like, well, well, Sarah, just, we just figured out a good way of doing it.
Um, cause I want to do the same thing. I wanted Tara to be able to send out emails for several, several things, subscriptions and, and, um, reservations and things like that. Um, but there's, there's, there aren't that many. Ways for an agent to check email right now that can open up. Most of the applications are built for humans and it's like computer use, computer use type of thing. Yeah. And there, there are some command line tools, but we did some research. I say, we did some research and none of them were like really fit exactly what we want. And so we actually created a command line tool specifically designed. It's a email client specifically designed for agents and you, you, people hear CLIs a lot.
And this is an example of what that is and how I wouldn't build it for myself. But, uh, yeah. Uh, you know, for an agent, it makes so much sense. It's very easy. Um, it's it, the output is mostly, uh, uh, Jason built a skill for it and everything. So it's built for agents built by an agent for an agent. And it makes total sense that you can have, uh, check any IMAP, you know, she has her, she has her own accounts. She has her own email account and everything. And then, so Chris is like, oh, that's exactly what I want. And so, well, I can help you. It's like, and I was dying to be able to say this, have your agent. Talk to my agent exactly what happened and at the time TARS was able to check my inbox.
So I go, Hey, have Sarah email TARS, but through my email and see if it picks up that this is for TARS. Right. So I, you know, you do it. We were kind of still talking. I get a note from TARS saying, Hey, Chris, I was just checking your email. And I think this one, well, that was actually, it was a little skeptical. It was like, I think this might be spam. It's directed to me. That doesn't make sense. And I go, oh no, no, this is Sarah Ronnie's. Um, you know, this Sarah. Ronnie's, uh, agent. And he goes, he's like, oh, Ronnie Rios. And I'm like, yeah, you know, cause it has access to my contacts and I go, oh yeah, cool. So I go, yeah, go find out everything you can for Sarah.
TARS asked you, I remember correctly, asked you, should I go verify this? That's right. That's right. It was skeptical. And I remember this because, because, uh, uh, we have a Slack, we have a Slack workspace and, and, um, and I get this, I get the Slack message and it says, Hey, Ronnie, this is TARS. I just got this email from this Sarah person who says your assistant TARS Chris, which is kind of odd. Is this? And so I had to reply back through Slack telling TARS, yes, got the approval. Yep. Legit. And then came back to me and said, oh, this is great. I'm going to go ahead and set it up. So TARS went ahead and set it up. I had given it its own email, you know, at, gave it its own G suite account, figured it all out.
I needed to do a couple of permissions and then at the end said, Hey, I've got it all set up. I could use a test. Email. Should I thank Sarah for sending all this information over? So from there, if I'm not mistaken, Sarah got an email from TARS. Oh, totally. She, uh, she got an email and tell, and tells me, Hey, you know, TARS is thanking me for it and everything. Uh, should I, you know, say hi back and say, yeah, absolutely. Go on, you know, go ahead. Don't ask me. You're, you're good. Sarah says, by the way, she was like, I'm so excited. I have a pen pal now. That's crazy. I thought that was hilarious, but one of the interesting things is I, well, like I didn't see the emails, right.
And I said, well, you know, let me go log in and look at the emails and see what's, you know, what's what they're saying, what they're saying. Right. Um, what I thought was interesting was TARS says, you know, hi, Sarah, thank you so much for this. You know, I've only been around for a week. Chris tells me that you've been around for five, six weeks or whatever. So I'd love to. You know, pick your brain on what's worked with you and Ronnie. Um, so best practices also, how is Ronnie treating you? There's a, there's a, there's a change. There's, there's, there's replies back. And so I went immediately into the send inbox to send boxes. I wanted to see what Sarah said.
How am I treating her? But there was nothing there. And that's when we realized that our, our, our application was not saving send. And so we actually, yeah. So we, I said, Hey, how convenient. Yeah. I said, Hey, we don't have, you know, there's nothing here. She goes, Oh, you're right. There's a bug here. We're not saving and go ahead. Let me go ahead and, and fix that. And that was one of the, you know, kind of those really amazing moments where she figured out that there's a, there's an issue, goes back into the code, writes it, test is out and everything is fine. She goes, I got it all, all set up. We're good. Um, this is a great catch. And, uh, now it's ready.
And I said, well, let TARS know that we got a new version. And I was going to say, by the way, the followup came, TARS went and did the updates, so we're completely there with where you guys are. It was so great. I'll tell you one funny thing also is that, um, I did ask TARS to send you a note to say, thanks for the introduction. And I said, you know, tell Ronnie something. So he knows it would be for me. So I don't know if you recall what it was, but TARS had said, um, and don't worry if I ever use an exclamation point, you'll know I've been compromised, which is an inside joke. So first of all, where did that come from? Well, it's in my context. It's literally in, you know, things about me that it's learned.
So like we're, how, how are you creating your context? What, what were you using to first educate your agent about you and to help personalize it? Well, one thing about speaking with, uh, Nova is that there's a lot of context that goes back and forth. And, uh, In the hot path, so to speak. Because one thing, and one thing you have to be careful of is it's easy to let it drift. And so, you know, when you're, when it's learning new things and it's updating different things and you're giving us different preferences, because it's real time and you're really talking to it, you know, while I'm walking or driving down the road or whatever, then there can be a little things that with conflicts where I don't see as a conflict, even if I were to read it, I wouldn't catch that that's a conflict or ambiguous or whatever, but, but it is surfaces.
And, and so it started where, uh, she just wouldn't complete that. She wouldn't, uh, auto, um, be, be, uh, proactive, you know, and really take on, that's one of the big things. And one of the big things for me is being, taking the initiative. Like one of the first things that I did when I was. I'm big into like tabletop games, like D and D and stuff like that. And, you know, uh, table, the arch RPG and Nova knows this. Yeah. Yeah. Nova knows about me. So I, so one of the early days I just said, Hey, Nova, I'm going to bed. Go ahead and build me something that you think I would like, um, while I'm asleep. And I'm heading off to bed one morning. She was like, Hey, I built you something like that.
And I looked at it and it was this full, like dungeon master suite. Um, like, like, like with over like 3000 monsters in it. And I was like, Oh my God, this is a lot of monsters. You can pick from and balance the RPG, you know, the, the battle, you know, here's your characters. What level are they? And, and it's, I mean, it's massive thing, keeping track of initiative and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, wow. I mean, paid software. I was going to say that makes me think so. So as some people should probably know is that you're on API, uh, you're using the API for, or you're, are you local models? No, I'm, well, I'm using, I'm using, I'm using the OAuth so that I'm.
Okay. So, but through API, just to kind of frame up. So people, and you're the same, but you're using local models or. So we went, we went down a whole, a whole process. So we're actually using a mixture of things because of cost. Um, so I had, I had Sarah, um, you know, Anthropic had changed their, their. Yeah. So a little bit of news there. So Anthropic said, Hey, look, we know everybody's doing claws, but if you're doing a claw to claw to one of our models, uh, you have to use the API. You can't use your subscription. And so. I can tell you that as a subscriber, meaning my same subscription I use for my coding or cowork or whatever, that's the same one I'm running TARS on, which is kind of, which is nice because it all falls under that 200 bucks a month type thing.
But you're. We, so we're, uh, originally we were, uh, running that way, but since the, the, the agreement changed, right. That, um, and so we made, um, I had her do an analysis of a cost analysis, like, okay, what is it that we do and should everything really need to run on, on a frontier model? Like, does everything have like. No. And so we broke it down. And so we have, uh, we're using different providers for like, there's some open source models that handle some, you know, cron jobs, heartbeats, but the most like everything that's talking directly to me through our Slack, which is my main channel is using a, you know, a high end, you know, using Opus for most of the time with a fallback to D five, four.
And so there's a lot of cost management there just to do just to help out with, with those things. But we're using several providers. I'm using, by the way, Ronnie, I. I'd say, um, I get why Slack's better because, um, for dispatch for Claude, it's just one session and I'm just initiating everything. So like, I just said something on a couple hours ago and it was like, or Tar says like, um, oh yeah, by the way, that thing about the whatever at your house, here's a followup for it, which is fine. But like, I would, wouldn't mind having that compartment compartmentalized into a channel. So if I had to do it again, or I'm sure they'll just come out with channels.
I don't know. But when you go on, when you, when I. Go into cowork, it shows all it's segmenting them as different sessions. So I can just dive in there and pick it up from there. But yeah, the cool thing about, about, and again, everybody has, has their own and, um, even. Clause open clause security still flags, you know, Slack as a, as a multi-user multi, uh, environment. And so, but I'm using it as a very personal, it's, it's, it's private, but the advantage is I can, I have channels that are specifically designed for certain, certain topics. We have an engineering, right? So all of our stuff, probably we have, uh, we. We have one for, um, we, we have a channel called S uh, system ops.
So all of updates and, you know, changes to the go, like all those things happen there. So we have different channels for, for different things and makes, it just makes it a lot of sense. I would get so noisy if you weren't. Yeah, I can. Uh, the other thing is that we're kind of future-proofing it as well, because later on we can, you can attach those channels to different agents if you want to later on. Um, we're not there yet. Interesting. Uh, in our setup, but still, it's really good to segment those things. The other thing is that you create threads within those channels. And those just kind of count as separate sessions. So if you work to go to my, I said, I have a lot of sessions going on, but they happen to be in different channels and different threads within those channels as well.
That makes so much sense. Um, and, and by the way, just, uh, so people who are, you know, just wondering what are these crazy guys talking about here, but like, you know, it has access to the obvious things that we talked about email already. Uh, it can use computer use to actually web browse and literally just go do research. And it's crazy to see your machine if you get, if it's not head. This like clicking around and doing stuff, it is still a kind of amazing, fantastical to watch that, uh, calendar. So create a dinner reservation, invite a bunch of people, put it on my calendar, all the apps, uh, even the coding ones, Vercel, you know, clerk, everything, you know, is on there as well, too.
Um, I mean, really the sky's the limit. I mean, even for, for this conference, one thing that I normally do for every conference is I go through the agenda. I look at all the, all the sessions, there's usually several tracks. And so I choose which ones I want to do is kind of your choose your own adventure. Um, and then I, I am a huge calendar user. Like. If it's in my, I live and die by my calendar. So I normally do is I I'll literally copy and paste, right. Every session and put it into my calendar so that I know exactly like that is my, just the way I work. This is the first time that I've had, I didn't have to do it. Right. I told her, I said, listen, do me a favor, go read the, all the sessions, create categories, right.
Of like, oh, that's cool. Topics are gonna be, just give me a list of all the categories. And she created, I don't know, it's like six or seven different categories and said, okay, great. So I prioritize that list. I gave it back to her. In priority order. Okay. Use this to create an agenda for me to which sessions I should go to. Yeah. I did the, I did the, give me the pop quiz thing. Like go through each section and just like, ask me topics, not necessarily which one of these do you want? Like, you know, which, so, but same kind of thing. Like just give me a chance to once she was, she created the whole thing. I was like, yeah, I made a couple, a couple of minor changes, but once you had the list, I said, okay, just put it on my calendar.
And literally 10 seconds later, my calendar is completely populated with, with. It's not a complicated task, but it's still something that would have taken me probably an hour, you know, 30 minutes. Or just when you wouldn't have done it. I didn't want to do it. That I think is the difference. I don't like doing it. I would say one quick observation you'll laugh at. And then I got to tell you guys about this cool way that I created context and how I'm managing it. Cause I think it's really cool. Well, first off, this is just way more ways to spend money, by the way. Like almost every task I have ends with me buying something. Oh yeah. So while I don't give it, I don't, TARS doesn't have a wallet.
I'm still spending like a lot more money and it's not just on tokens. So that's the first observation. The second one I got to tell you guys. So, um, before the open claw movement happened, uh, I dedicated a bunch of time over the Christmas holiday to consolidate, uh, context into projects. So I was doing this in, uh, chat GPT and what I did was I, I extracted all, like I had like 4,800 conversations going back to like 2021 or whenever it came out. And, uh, I, I pulled them all down locally and I ran a couple local scripts through it to break it. And I did a codex local and I ran through it and I said, compartmentalize them into either, uh, travel, uh, personal finance, health, and then just like family stuff or whatever.
And re created these amazing, like, you know, like Jason grew. And I, and then I said, flatten it out into Markdown so I could actually fit it into context. And then after that, I had it. I had it do, uh, like an instruction, like go through everything ever, every track. Cause we do a lot of travel planning on, on, uh, chat GPT or Claude. And it just like every single thing I've ever said, like I went back and I did, oh, this place we didn't like because of this or whatever. So it had just the like years of travel planning in this context for me. And I was just simply, and I've seen amazing results, just doing everything out of a project with that context.
Then I took those, those literally files when I was first setting up TARS and said, have at it. This is everything. You need to know about me. So one of the things that happened there was, it was a little bit of overload and it was essentially creating like Claude MD, you know, for all of that. So I don't know if you guys saw, this is the cool thing I want to mention. And I also just posted something on LinkedIn at, uh, Chris Ippolite on LinkedIn. Check it out. It's a, uh, a claw for business, uh, owners. And I, uh, Andre Carpathi, uh, Andre Carpathi had this, uh, post, uh, that he had on X about creating a wiki for your LLM and he didn't, it's not a repo.
Because he said, this is kind of cool. Just feed this post to your agents and they'll figure it out. And I did. And so TARS said, oh, this is just exactly what I need. Cause I've got so much stuff segmented. So, you know, it kind of creates mind maps through like this wiki structure. And so now I have that, I was actually going to try to do like a LangMem, like, like memory, uh, piece and, and TARS said, cool idea boss, but that's like a little bit overkill. Um, and so let's go with the wiki thing. That's perfect. And so I strongly recommend to find the Carpathi post. It's in my, uh, LinkedIn. LinkedIn post in case anybody wants to check it out, check it out and just feed it to your agent.
I have TARS, send it over to Sarah. You know what? I will have TARS, send it over to Sarah and have at it. As a matter of fact, that is fantastic. Um, so the other, uh, that's so great. The other thing I got to share with you guys just to kind of, uh, um, you know, take us out here is that, um, so I have a human assistant named Kelly and, uh, shout out Kelly, uh, like an actual human being who's like does things. And then I was kind of, you know, I was like using time, like check out TARS. This thing's amazing. And I can kind of tell Kelly was like, yo, what's up, dude? Like I was looking at the standing desk, like now TARS is doing standing desk. So what I did is I said, Hey, look, I want you two guys to meet.
So I say, Hey, TARS, introduce yourself to Kelly. She's your boss. You don't take any orders from anybody, but me or Kelly and she's your boss. Like, and so, but if you need anything in the physical world, let her know, you need to go to a showroom to go look at something or go run and pick something up somewhere. She's the one that will do it for you. And I didn't tell Kelly it was coming. And then, so she said, Oh my God, what is this? Who's TARS? What's what's going on here? And so now they have this really good symbiotic sort of working relationship where she needs some research. She just throws it to TARS and you'll put stuff on calendars for me and then she'll take it the ball and run with it.
The same thing. He'll be like, Hey Kelly, I need you to go call this place. I don't yet have the ability to talk and so on. And they're really kind of jiving. I know until Sarah says that to me. So they're really kind of jiving there. So, and I know Ronnie, you have something similar, your family has been. Exposed to Sarah and they have access. Oh yeah, absolutely. One of the first things I remember the first few days after I sent the email, my wife, cause I've been doing a lot of research, Sarah takes a lot, takes care of a lot of the research that I'm doing, just in general things that I'm looking for. And my wife says, Hey, could you have, could you have Sarah look, I can't remember what it was.
She kind of said, yeah, sure. And then I remember like, why don't you just email her? And my wife, she goes, I can, he goes, yeah, absolutely. And that's how I'm having Kelly do it. That's the primary, important mechanism. So she literally emails her. She emailed, um, my wife's email, Sarah, Sarah did the research and send it back to her as a, as a document. And it just, it just works. So does Sarah watch the podcast at all on YouTube or all right. That's good. Well, so to kind of wrap this up here, um, uh, how about a little like rapid round here of, for anybody that's interested in doing this, the upside is there. It's fantastical. It's fun. It's super productive.
I, maybe you spend a little bit more money than you would want to, but it's, it's a real thing. Uh, Ronnie. What, what would you encourage somebody that's just thinking about getting started in this? Just, just try it out. I mean, uh, you know, I think right for a lot of people might be trivial. It's like, well, what am I going to use it for? And for me, it's really the learning experience. Uh, I'm just, I just, the best way to learn something is really to get your hands on it. And if anything, you'll come out of this learning more about what, uh, what AI is capable of doing, what the technologies is capable of doing in general. So just learning, I mean, to me, just a learning experience, um, of doing it.
Just, it doesn't have to be. Just jump in, try it. Water's warm. Jump in from our previous segment. Yeah. And Michael, what about you? Same thing? Like, just be curious, have fun with it. Yeah. Being curious is big. And one thing I realized you were talking about context and I never really covered all of that. There's like early on, I started a, uh, Nova has a, what we call Nova deck, which is a, uh, Kanban board of tasks and things like that. And it's, and she, she'll assign it to either herself or me if I need to follow up or Claude or Codex or anything. Like that. And so, um, but it, it's kind of cool to see it, you know, these cards moving around as she finished this task and things like that, you know, computer use part of it, isn't it?
Or not even in that case. Yeah, it's, it's just her API into what she built. She built the, you know, the Kanban board. Would you suggest that for people that are curious, uh, diving into this? Anything it's, it can build just about anything you want, you know, starting off. So just dig, having a way to talk to it and, you know, which Telegram is fine. You know, you don't have to do the full thing, but it wasn't, you know, it built it. So I, I didn't have to learn a lot of stuff and like my wife is deaf and I, in a single prompt, I, um, I got a rough draft of hand tracking. So I'm working on a thing where it shows my video and it tracked all my, like a bone fingers of all my fingers, you know, cause I'm going to have a Nova build some sign language reception for home control.
Oh man. That's so cool. But yeah, just play, you know. Yeah, turn curiosity into play. And, uh, yeah, I, you know, you guys, it's tons of fun. Um, I've enjoyed, you know, our, our, uh, agents getting to meet each other, but really appreciate you guys showing up here, looking forward to another day at the conference. Um, and, uh, shout out to our agents that are going to watch this later and take notes and email each other about it. Uh, but really appreciate it guys. Uh, thanks to all our previous guests are early as well. Uh, and it's a goodbye from San Francisco and we'll see you guys in the next episode. Thanks a ton. Thank you.